News

Feminist barrister tweets screenshot of senior male solicitor’s ‘sexist’ LinkedIn message

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278

Well, this is embarrassing

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A senior partner at the London office of Brown Rudnick has been shamed on Twitter after sending a private LinkedIn message to a barrister praising her “stunning” profile photo.

Rather than respond with, as perhaps was hoped, a coquettish smiley face to Alexander Carter-Silk’s note, Charlotte Proudman — who describes herself as a “fearless feminist” in her Twitter bio — took a screenshot of the correspondence and yesterday evening posted it on Twitter for all the world to see.

The five-year call family law specialist at the Chambers of Michael Mansfield QC also included her non-plussed response in which she brands Carter-Silk’s message “offensive”, “sexist” and “misogynistic”.

Proudman has received messages of support on Twitter for her actions exposing what some have dubbed “disgusting” behaviour. Meanwhile, Carter-Silk, who leads his firm’s European intellectual property division, has issued this statement via City law messageboard RollOnFriday:

Most people post pretty unprofessional pictures on Linked in, my comment was aimed at the professional quality of the presentation on linked in which was unfortunately misinterpreted. Ms Proudman is clearly highly respected and I was pleased to receive her request to linkup and very happy to instruct her on matters which [are] relevant to her expertise that remains the position.

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278 Comments

Anon

So she would rather have been called ugly? Feminists, always looking for a reason to be angry…

(360)(150)

Anonymous

Have you deliberately missed the point? What she wants is to be contacted because of her legal credentials and advocacy ability, not to be contacted about her looks. Obviously. Too many female lawyers are judged by their looks- she wants that to change.

(172)(96)

Anonymous

Reading the article it appears that she contacted him first, rather than the other way around.

(112)(24)

Anonymous

What the fuck.difference does that make?

(46)(82)

Anonymous

youre an idiot. do you not know how email threads work?

(31)(7)

Anonymous

That is the way the site works. You ask to become a contact with people in the same field of business as yourself. It is a business network, not a dating service!

(19)(21)

Anon

C’est le vie? Mayhaps she should just suck it up and get on with her laugh rather than throw a tantrum in an attempt to assert her moral superiority as a “fearless feminist” (whatever that means, I rather suspect it means being constantly annoyed and outraged at the world and the ‘patriarchy’).

(140)(63)

Anon

life*

(22)(6)

Anonymous

You sound like a Meninist. Who complain when Women don’t want to treated like a piece of meat first, rather than their credentials

Anonymous

if that means being treated like a piece of meat I can only assume you are untouched by men

Anonymous

I think she’s ageist!

(25)(2)

Peter

I tend to agree. Had the comment come from a virile twenty or thirty something male, there would have been no fuss. Personally I think comments of the nature made have no place on Linked in, and whilst I have sympathy for both parties, it should have been dealt with privately through LinkedIn.

Anonymous

So if she doesn’t want her looks to have influence, why doesn’t she do what many do and not post a picture? Such obvious hypocrisy.

If the situation was reversed and a woman replied with that to me on linked in I would be flattered, and then continue business as normal. Honestly its not even that inappropriate and is pretty much just a nice compliment.

If you want us to take us seriously in businesses stop purposely getting offended over nothing!

(120)(47)

Anonymous

You have completely missed the point

(17)(47)

Sue

The point that she’s a ball busing bitch you mean? That’s the only point I see her making

Anonymous

What a hideous witch. See what response that draws.

Anonymous

His reply might not be 100% PC, and is a bit strange, but I fear it was young lady who has approached him, so saying “My partner gets messages asking if he wants a job at hedge funds, I get propositions from men asking me out. I want a public apology. I want people to know that’s not acceptable. It’s important we call this out.” is a tiny tad of an overreaction.

(80)(12)

Anonymous

She contacted him, dork.

(9)(6)

Anonymous

So she linked into him or vice versa seems to make a difference here. His comments about her obviously styled profile pic ring true if she linked him?

(6)(1)

Anonymous

So linked has a search function that enables a search for “hot female barrister types” I guess??? That must be how he found her photo

(4)(2)

Sue

She needs to seriously get over herself.

(46)(3)

Anonymous

I also want to be Santa Claus. In life people give what they feel like giving you, not what you demand. I can only wish her that no man ever will contact her for anything else than proffessional stuff.

(8)(4)

Anonymous

She needs to grow up. Ironic how she gobbed it off on Twitter about his sexist behaviour, whilst behaving worse herself on FB ogling guys and making oooohhh aaaahhh comments. This was sexist but it seems Feminists think sexism only works one way – hypocrite.

(9)(2)

Sue

She was NOT “contacted” for her looks. She was contacted and thanked for the connection on LinkedIn and then the comment on her looks were an afterthought. But did anyone see the article that showed how SHE commented on pictures all over Facebook? HOTTIE, YUM, OOOH LA LA and on and on. Talk about objectifying and sexism.

(7)(1)

Anonymous

Which must be why she put a professionally taken picture of herself up.

(3)(0)

Anonymous

She contacted him!

(3)(0)

Tom

I direct you to the reply given in Arkell v Pressdram.

(15)(2)

Paul Wesson

I use that response a lot.

(1)(0)

Anonymous

What, the one where the resolution us a good root?

(0)(0)

Anonymous

Comments like these make me lose all hope in the future for the legal industry.

Lawyers CANT be this stupid…

(29)(5)

Anonymous

Oh man. You are nearly too thick to live.

(3)(7)

Anonymous

A typically over the top response to a somewhat banal compliment. Your response dearie was rude and objectionable – you need to grow up and develop a thicker skin. Pathetic!

(39)(13)

Anonymous

No, they’d just rather their looks weren’t commented on at all. It’s not a difficult concept to comprehend.

(13)(14)

Anonymous

There’s nothing against the law to say someone has a nice picture, if it offends her, she should withdraw her request to connect.

(120)(8)

Anonymous

Then why post a picture……….

(72)(6)

Anonymous

Because LinkedIn tells you that profiles with pics get X% more views and therefore offers of work etc. It’s a professional forum, not a dating site.

(11)(9)

Anonymous

Did he ask her on a date?

Anonymous

Would she have responded the same way to a lesbian?

(28)(4)

Sue

And that warrants publicly shaming some guy? It’s one thing to be considered a “feminist” but it’s when it crosses the line to “bally busting bitch” there’s a problem. She crossed that line here.

She couldn’t just be professional about it and reply to the guy that she didn’t appreciate the compliment? I doubt she gets that many anyway

(12)(4)

Anonymous

In my day it was called a compliment!

(9)(1)

Francesca

Does nobody here actually read…..the guy said “that is a stunning picture….you definitely win the prize for the best LinkedIn picture” at no point did he say that SHE was stunningly good looking. Her response seems a little over the top given the content of his REPLY to her initial request to connect. He was a bit daft for sure too, however i suspect he is simply a victim of a woman waiting for an inappropriate remark from a peer so that she could espouse her own values.
As a lawyer, she should probably get a bit more into the detail of what EXACTLy was said before going off on one again

(10)(3)

Anonymous

Why would making a comment about the quality of her photo be considered Politically Incorrect?

(4)(0)

Anonymous

Would he have posted the same comment if the she was a he. I think he would never comment on a man’s appearance therefore the comment is sexist.

(7)(7)

Anonymous

Quite simply nobody knows the answer to whether or not he would have made a similar comment on a man’s appearance and neither did Ms Proudman. While he may (or may not) have made such a comment to a man in the past or future neither you nor Ms Proudman know. Maybe his comment was intended as a compliment or maybe a coded come on stating that he found her sexually attractive in the hope she would reciprocate? Quite simply his reply is open to different interpreatation and only he knows what he really meant. Clearly his comment was unwelcomed by Ms Proudman as she interpretted his response in a certain way. This does not in itself mean her interpretation is correct. Does this justify Ms Proudman publishing his response and his name and and e-mail address in the public domain when she could have dealt with the matter directly with him (by e-mailing him and educating him by suggesting his response was not appropriate) and also directly with his firm, which I suggested would have been the more professional option. This is especially the case as one of Ms Proudman’s complaints is that he breached professional convention as Linked in is a professional site for business. However Ms Proudman then “called him out” in the public domain in addition to dealing with this purely on a professional basis with his firm and the Solicitors Regulation Authority. I also note that Ms Proudman has written an article on cyber bulling stating, “Men can use revenge porn as a way to punish women – simply for behaving in ways that they do not approve of”. Ms Proudman’s article also quotes another human rights barrister who states, “Publicly humiliated women often experience serious and irreparable damage. That’s the intention” While any revenge porn (either by male or female) is disgraceful and I do not draw a direct distinction with the issue at hand, I do agree with the sentiment that using the internet (e.g. Twitter) to shame and PUBLICLY humiliate is wrong simply on the basis you do not approve of what was written in a private e-mail to you and potentially has devastating effects on the person shamed. Perhaps Ms Proudman should have re-read her own article before deciding (acting as judge and jury) her interpretation of what he wrote was so seriously wrong that it “justified” trumping his right to privacy (the defence she has raised in response to why she made his name public). She is a “human rights” barrister after all and could have simply published the content of his e-mail without naming and shaming him with the clear (and hypocritical) intent of humiliating him and ultimately his family. While he has in my opiniom excercised very poor judgment in his e-mail to Ms Proudman her actions of publically naming and shaming him are much more punishing, controlling and intentionally humiliating.

(9)(1)

Anonymous

It’s only sexist if it’s discriminatory, which it wasn’t. Just because it is something that would be done to a woman and not a man does not make it sexist. Otherwise you could argue that a smear test or gynaecological inspection are sexist.

(0)(1)

Anonymous

It doesn’t have to be aimed at a woman to be sexist. Men can also be subject to sexism

(0)(0)

Anonymous

Count your blessings and make your blessings count. Maybe the ridiculous attention hungry lady should be dismissed using Sec. 19-24, frivolous and hard to prove.

Seems to me the lady lawyer should go back to being a useful article student!

(2)(1)

Dante

Firstly, she makes a very poor generalization of men and secondly I feel her reaction to this was completely disproportionate when she could have ignored/blocked him/reported him, sent him a personal message requesting an apology-my point being, there were other ways of resolving this rather than turning it into a new story for the press to feed off, right? So did she have to go out of her way and potentially ruin this man’s career to prove her point? I don’t think so…I think she is irrational, acted via her emotions and didn’t quite think this one through so I wouldn’t be surprised if people in her profession avoid working with her.

(5)(1)

John

what a twisted sick woman if I was given a compliment I would be happy not annoyed. This poor chap only gave this so called woman a compliment in fact he did her a favour I would consider her a miss fatty what a sick twisted so called woman .Wemon out there beware of this new breed of female she brings down your beautiful womanhood , God help who ever she marries or lives with they would have to be of an exceptional caliber or as TWISTED as this SICKO

(3)(1)

Anonymous

Lol, best comment yet!

(0)(0)

Anonymous

Perhaps all men and women should be segregated away from each other never to make contact with the opposite sex ever again just in case one or the other offends the other, the feminists in society seem to be pushing it to be that way, they clearly hate men so much, the male of the species should just completely to never have any dealings with females ever again.

(1)(0)

Klaus

The most horrifying part of Carter-Silk’s message is his use of multiple exclamation marks and misspelling of ‘understand’.

(120)(6)

Bystander

His post-hoc excuse doesn’t stand up. If it was an “innocent” comment on the professionalism of the mugshot, then he wouldn’t have described his comment as ‘horrendously politically incorrect’.

His comment was wrong when he made it, he knew it was wrong, but thought he would get away with it because the sexist idiot didn’t think that a woman would dare stand up for herself.

He needs to actually apologise, not give some lame-ass excuse which makes him look like even more of a prat.

(107)(136)

Anonymous

Yes he needs to apologise. So should she, publicly.

Screenshot? Twitter? I get that even fleeting instants of sexism should be brought to light (the expendable ones are often insidious), but where’s the bloody professionalism? Either she’s chosen to blazon her feminist virtues over keeping professional decorum, or, perhaps in what appears to be a spasmodic moment of rage, she’s consigned professional codes to the waste bin.

A wonderful demonstration, kids, of how not to behave. Shame on all y’all.

(69)(20)

Anonymous

Have you not read the recent report of the Bar Council around the rampant sexism faced by female members of the bar? She was right to do what she did.

(23)(67)

Anonymous

That doesn’t matter. If somebody offends me, then I let them know privately. This was a horribly unprofessional way of dealing with this. This WILL hurt her reputation almost as much as his. If he made a comment that was bad enough to be an actual danger to her, then she should have contacted the police. He didn’t. So she should have privately messages him. This was a gross overreaction. She just wanted to ‘stick one to the man’. After seeing her overreact to this, imagine if she learned information from a client that was offensive to her. Would she publicly shame this client? I think she would, tbh. That would possibly bring legal actions depending on what it was. This woman seems like a hotheaded idiot right now. Good luck to her finding a job anywhere now. No one will dare link up with her now, lol.

(1)(0)

Anonymous

Doesn’t ms p also need to apologize for the negative connotation of “half your age” sexism is wrong but so is ageism

(30)(0)

Anonymous

How can complimenting a photo be interpreted as mysoginistic? And the ageism thing – is she implying that it’s particularly bad because he is a generation older than her? So a similar comment from someone her own age would be ok?

(1)(0)

Losing the will to live

Leaving the question of sexism aside….this reaction, whether from a woman or a man, indicates a personality that is so far up her/his own backside that the return journey back would be perilous indeed…….

(18)(1)

Jon

I completely agree with this comment.
Also, women in this profession struggle to be recognised for their skills as a lawyer & not her looks.

Yes she’s pretty, she’s going to look presentable in court. She doesn’t need a dirty 57 old married pervert with kids chatting her up thinking it’s the way of things in the law profession.

She hit the roof a bit in her reply & it may be slightly over-reacting but… I’m glad she stuck up for herself.

(6)(14)

Anonymous

‘a dirty 57 old married pervert with kids’ ….. sorry, but why is he perverted?

(1)(0)

Anonymous

Dull….. The woman is a hypocrite. Commenting on men on FB in the same way she criticises. Typical – one rule for one……..

(6)(0)

trickydicky

you need rehabilitation into the human race ‘bystander’!

(0)(0)

Sabrina

Her reaction is completely over the top and unnecessary. What does she gain from posting this? Many of us have to face REAL sexism and objectification on a daily basis. This reeks of attention seeking.

(141)(37)

Quo Vadis

A minor faux pas is not worth a public monstering, whatever the circumstances.

(81)(17)

Anonymous

Her response was wonderful, but I wouldn’t have shamed him online. HOWEVER, if women do not highlight such behaviour then many men (and some women) are allowed to continue thinking that sexism/harassment is simply an isolated, one-off incident that happens to girls in mini-skirts only.

The reality is women are disrespected and harassed on a daily basis. You’d be hard pressed to find a woman who hasn’t experienced some form of sexism/harassment/touching in public – and this is the UK for god’s sake. Whilst I feel sorry for this man in that he was shamed online, unless we start doing this every time, people will continue to think that sexual harassment of women etc is just a one-off. If people, especially men, understood the degree to which women are disrespected let alone harassed, perhaps it would change their behaviour. As far as I’m aware, ‘campaigns’ don’t do the trick, but things like this unfortunately do.

(35)(32)

Anon

It’s true, women are harassed on a daily basis.

Similarly, over a lifetime, 80% of a man’s earnings, be they direct taxation, indirect taxes, or downright unfair charges, are basically directed in a massive, one way, never ending, ever increasing amount to women who don’t fund their own existence, but men have no way of complaining, and in fact the state actively helps women get the money. It doesn’t attempt to stop them.

So who has it harder? A woman who has to endure a wolf whistle from the builders who die 20 years younger because of their “equal pay for equal work” or the men who pay their child benefit, maternity pay, early pensions, ad nauseum and die at 67 after 5 years on the sick?

Feminism has succeeded in its task, which was equal rights, protection under the law, and so on. What we have now is a legal system that oppresses men so badly in their relations with women, that a dozen a year crack under the injustice and kill their own children on a Sunday visit.

I’m afraid the infrastructure which was rightly put in to fight sexism, now that its been done, has nothing to do, and so it’s spending its time teaching women to treat men as untermenschen, In my opinion, her response was not one of justice, it was contempt for a man she felt completely at ease at attempting to destroy because she felt completely justified that he shouldn’t be allowed to consider himself worthy of speaking to her. This is the problem with modern feminism in my option. It’s a hate movement with supremacy on its mind, no longer a justice movement with equality.

While he should have looked at her profile and seen social justice warrior all over it, I’ve seen several women like this in my long life. They behave like dreadful egocentric people who’ve lived in such blissful ignorance all their life of the sacrifices of the men who died early, or just died, making their world a clean, safe, healthy place.

They remind me of the piles of people who’ve lived in the microcosm of western civilisation, provided so well by our security services for so long, that they think the world is a lovely place made bad elsewhere by the security services rather than the world being innately awful and the security services have made it good in their little area of the world.

I find people like her, entirely offensive, and wonder just how men are supposed to make a first move. It’s no wonder men are abandoning marriage and society’s in collapse outside of the Temple.

I don’t believe there’s a man reading this who doesn’t know someone who was violently rejected by a woman because she thought herself way above him, and doesn’t believe that same woman wouldn’t jump straight into bed, if Mark Zuckerberg tried the same thing on.

Men are no angels. We commit much more crime, much more violence, and cause much more hurt, but there are some dreadful women too. I’m glad I’ll never have cause to meet her, because I think she’s one of them.

(13)(6)

Anonymous

Just wanted to say you hit the nail on the head with that comment. I just wanted to add that not all women are despicable people like this person. Also not all women want to work. Some women actually enjoy being stay at home moms. Just like some dads do now. My wife in particular finds these women particularly awful. They will openly attack her because she isn’t working and wants me to care for her. It’s what she has worked very hard at all her life, and she enjoys it. Isn’t feminism supposed to be about equality and pursuing happiness? Well no, it isn’t actually, but that was the original intent. I find people like this despicable. Femism and men’s rights activist are the worst kind of people. They attack anyone who doesn’t fall in line with their own paradigm of their gender. They also sound so many false alarms that the average person can’t relate to them. I hope this type of behavior continues. It will be the downfall of both movements. Maybe after that happens, we can finally live peacefully and coexist without hateful people demeaning the other gender. Also she ogles men on Facebook all the time. Typical double standard that these women’s/men’s rights activist have. The old do as I say, not as I do routine…

(0)(0)

Anonymous

Boring!

(1)(0)

Anonymous

It’s almost like these ‘extreme’ feminists are only after the attention their positions bring them rather than enacting any real change. I’ve stopped showing any open support for any feminist ideals, because all it does is open me to attack and criticism from feminists. How DARE a man attempt to show solidarity and support, you’ll never understand what we go through, your response is a ‘not all men’ response, etc. etc. ad-freaking-nauseam, and you’ll end up being accused of something or other, and are expected to apologise for the actions of the rest of mankind everywhere. Even though I deeply believe in gender equality, I don’t bother commenting or taking a public position on these things anymore – I’ll just get attacked by the people I’m trying to support. As far as I’m concerned they’ve lost an ally in their struggle.

(34)(16)

Anonymous

Oops, time to look for a new career!!
(Daily Mail,10/9/15,page 9, Sarah Vine)

(6)(1)

Anonymous

Ha ha ha, Daily Mail,11/09/15,p10-13.
Well and truly caught out!
Hypocritical, sanctimonious cow!

Live by the sword……..

(4)(0)

Anonymous

Yes, she needs to get over herself and grow up. She has probably burnt all her bridges, without thinking. Nothing but a little upstart.

(74)(1)

Anonymous

Well said , she is an absolute disgrace. I am embarrassed to be a female with this pathetic attitude, Proud man , needs to get a grip and get over her self. It’s ridiculous that this got media attention. I hope the profession can see beyond this woman’s insecurities and not think we are all the same to get our knickers in a twist over a passing comment from a fellow professional. Maybe she will be boycotted now for her imature ridiculous way that she sees life . Debbie

(4)(0)

Anonymous

Now THIS wreaks of attention seeking….

(9)(1)

Anonymous

I think he should pay his optometrist a visit. Professional skills or none, she still looks like a Lego man.

(111)(23)

Rushdy

Indeed, first rule of hair as an outward indicator of character:

Straight ‘helmet-style’ fringe = huge level of suppressed anger = danger.

(65)(13)

Dr Bonham

I totally accept that what the solicitor did was somewhat unprofessional, in particular the comment about’winning the prize’ was totally overboard. Yet her reaction is unfortunate; a sincere compliment is not misogyny and the age of the person is irrelevant and the reference to it demonstrates ageist thinking about relationships.

(90)(13)

Anonymous

Good on her. SO many female barristers and solicitors are judged by their looks and are told they look ‘fuckable’ or told to dress more sexily etc. sexism is rife and it needs to change.

(41)(79)

Anonymous

Boring!

(0)(0)

Double Standards Board

She could easily have accepted it as flattery, said it was inappropriate and say that she’s not willing to stay in touch.

Who gave her the right to speak for all of womankind anyway?

(74)(28)

Anonymous

She isn’t – she is just speaking for herself. Just as other women are free to criticise her, so she is free to say what she thinks. That’s the POINT of feminism, not the idea that all women have to think the same.

(22)(26)

Double Standards Board

She could have expressed her opinion without invading Poland.

It’s called being an individual, not victimising herself.

(31)(7)

Anonymous

But not to publish it for all to read as one would do so only if they are insecure and wish to ask the audience for their view.

(22)(0)

Anonymous

Boring!

(0)(0)

Anonymous

I’m glad that she did what she did and I most certainly would not have taken it as flattery
So I praise her for representing womankind even if some women don’t agree…people completely missed the point with what she did and sexists pigs like him should be bought to light
For the women who don’t agree…you’ll appreciate it at some point in your lives what she did

(5)(41)

Anon

That’s the patronising comment on the thread.

(5)(0)

Anonymous

Completely unprofessional way to deal with this. She’s sadly shown the true agenda on her mind at the potential cost of her career. Pathetic.

(37)(1)

Quo Vadis

Sending a message like that was unprofessional. Disseminating private correspondence because you dislike its content is even worse. If you believe a solicitor has acted in a disreputable fashion, you go to the SRA – not Twitter.

(104)(11)

Anonymous

Wait. So when women complement men, or eroticise them, on their looks, is that also exercising power? What power?

(42)(11)

Bazza McBallsack

Poor little Mr Carter-Silk, he’s probably just love-starved and lonely, spending countless hours on Pornhub, leaving him with calloused hands and loath for the dustbin he has to call his wife.

If only dear Charlotte would have accepted a night of sweaty, panting passion delivered my Mr Carter-Silk’s meaty shaft, she would have thought twice about such nasty tweets.

Can’t we all just get along?

(47)(36)

Female Lawyer

I am a woman and a lawyer – but find her behaviour VERY unprofessional! Yes, his move was very unprofessional (dumb and of questionable mind, also, Has he seen many women?)

She could have responded to him directly and not opted for “shaming” him publicly! She did so because she is trying to get attention to her profile. I suspect less instructions on the horizon.

(87)(14)

Salmon Act 1986, s.32

“I suspect *fewer* instructions on the horizon.”

FTFY

(64)(3)

Pedant

Use of capitals in the middle of a sentence too (see first paragraph).

(5)(5)

Anonymous

Agree. Both have behaved irresponsibly. I note no one has mentioned her agist comment as if his age made his behaviour worse.

(26)(0)

Anonymous

Perhaps it even reveals something to the offender about himself (yes, I’m going for a philosophical angle here). So much of the time throw-away, seemingly trivial comments are made, the real-world meaning behind which only comes to light when someone is called out on it. He probably thought nothing of it. I’ll just say it cuz the mood has caught me. Inconsequential right?

In a word…busted!

But her response is ageist. Also, I agree with Quo Vadis. Thoroughly unprofessional, regardless of its content.

A loss on both sides.

(22)(7)

From Nigeria

I am a [male] photographer: if our Ms. Proudman had been a green-skinned, googly-eyed, multiple-nostrilled [sic] pus-oozing alien twit in a burkha, I would have still complemented the PICTURE!
Mr. Carter-Silk complimented the PICTURE! Which is stunning. But definitely not her!
It is the lighting, the contrasts and the hues and the composition… If it had been a picture of a pile of sh… manure… It could still be a nice picture!

(2)(3)

Anon

I’m not a male photographer. I’m of the opinion he ultimately wanted to get it on.

But so what? She could have politely said, “Thanks for the offer, but I find you repulsive, so I’ll refuse your kind request.”

Then in a few years time, when she’s got a husband rather than a “partner” and has a baby on the way, he could say exactly the same thing, when she asked for tax to pay for her NHS 12 week scan.

(0)(3)

Anonymous

This comment is a pile of sh…manure…. He was referring to her appearance!

(1)(0)

Dr Friend

I can understand her being a bit peeved, but her reaction says more about her emotional state than it does about feminism or the guy’s inept email.

The anger and venom that comes pouring out in the email from her is extraordinary. She may find that a chat with a psychologist to be of help. Clearly she needs to exorcise a good deal of anger and she’s maybe targeting it at the wrong people (though the man made himself a target).

I could guess as to root trauma(s) that led to this, e.g. sexual abuse by male family member etc, but perhaps it’s best shared with someone with patient privilege.

(42)(11)

Chill Pill

Good lord, he may be a pig (but it is arguable, it was a private mail) but she is a NUTTER! What’s with the rage and explosion? This looks bad for her, more than for him.

…. and honey, get over yourself, the way you look – you should be happy someone sees you as “good” looking, even if it is from an old man (as she calls it).

(62)(12)

MrShineHimDiamond

Again. Women should be flattered by sexism is not an argument.

(20)(11)

Anon

It’s all relative. I suspect virtually all the women in Ferryhill, County Durham would have taken him up on it, even the married ones – with the money he’s got. For my opinion, she just thinks she’s worth more.

It’s the old (probably) apocryphal Winston Churchill bout with Lady Astor, “Would you sleep with me for a million pounds?” “Why yes I suppose!” “What about two and six?” “What kind of woman do you think I am? “We’ve already established the kind of woman. Now we’re haggling.”

Of the millions of women I’ve known, all but one were just after a series of big zigazigahs, and being treated like the privilege bestowed upon a princess. I’ve not seen anything that makes me believe her different other than the violence with which she reacts when she thinks someone else acts as if she doesn’t deserve it.

That said, if women want money without putting out, men want sex without paying. She can perhaps represent his wife at the divorce, to teach him a lesson.

(0)(1)

Anonymous

Wow. Shocked at this post. I’m no supporter of either party in this frankly lame story where both parties Should have handled themselves better – SHE should have kept it succinct and accurate and stated that his comments re physical appearance are inappropriate, spoke to her head of chambers and posssibly the solictors firm. No way publish on twitter. HE should not have sent in first place, “horrendously politically incorrect” in his own words.

this isnt that complicated, not rocket science – do these people not know how to use emails properly?? either of them? the mind boggles.

however, your response is one i find shocking: completely INVENT / IMAGINE a previous history of sexual abuse is a low blow, scraping the barrel…..and seriously NOT an appropriate response when someone (rightly) complains that they have been offended, even when their response seems to be disproportionate

(5)(1)

Anon

Wow. Shocked at this post. I’m no supporter of either party in this frankly lame story where both parties Should have handled themselves better – SHE should have kept it succinct and accurate and stated that his comments re physical appearance are inappropriate, spoke to her head of chambers and posssibly the solictors firm. No way publish on twitter. HE should not have sent in first place, “horrendously politically incorrect” in his own words.

this isnt that complicated, not rocket science – do these people not know how to use emails properly?? either of them? the mind boggles.

however, your response is one i find shocking: completely INVENT / IMAGINE a previous history of sexual abuse is a low blow, scraping the barrel…..and seriously NOT an appropriate response when someone (rightly) complains that they have been offended, even when their response seems to be disproportionate

(1)(1)

Knee and Ertle

That hairdo looks like a Wehrmacht helmet. Looks are important. Everyone knows it. Why pretend otherwise? Men do a hard enough job in law. What’s wrong with the girls making a bit of an effort ??

(31)(14)

Lord Harley of Bollocks

Ok, let’s look at this logically

1. Barrister sends linkedin connection request to solicitor

2. Solicitor accepts, comments positively on linkedin picture and ends on professional note.

3. Barrister goes ape shit, tears him a new one, posts his private message on twitter and contacts his firm?

Yeah, she’s insane and outright looking for a fight. Modern feminism in a nutshell.

(62)(10)

Anonymous

This is NOT modern feminsim – I am a woman and I will say this: she is a bit on the mental side. She is only looking for some media/public attention, did not manage to hook up with an actor, so…

(42)(9)

Anonymous

Absolutely….modern feminism….. a very unhealthy trait in some women.

A woman recently got sarcastic with me because I stood up as she entered the room ! What is wrong with these feminists?

(22)(3)

trickydicky

I daren’t say whats wrong with feminism – climate of fear!

(0)(0)

Lord Harley of Counsel

Mine is a big one. What would she make of that ?

I am referring to my LinkedIn profile of course.

(23)(3)

Lincoln's Out

Awaits Barrister Hottie response…

(12)(3)

Captain Skinboat

What a foul creature, she ought to be flattered for any attention she gets!

Say goodbye to getting any future instructions darling, after this sharade I’d imagine firms will think twice about ever contacting her again. She might consider the tone of their voice too forward and accuse them of being naughty sexists as well!

(61)(10)

Anonymous

The only thing i’d instruct her for is to make me a sandwich

(50)(9)

Anonymous

or a foot rub

(11)(5)

Oz so hard

Or a tuggie.

(20)(3)

Anonymous

I am deeply disappointed to find people on this website, of all places, who genuinely think this woman’s response was full of rage… OR that this woman is the sole representative of feminism. What those comments reflect is a DEEP unease with a woman standing up for herself – and you can admire and respect that, even if you disagree with the fact that she shamed him online (which I think was a bit much.) What is really pathetic is that if a guy did such a thing, he wouldn’t be called ‘mental’ or any such word. It’s similar to a strong boss who is a man being called a ‘leader’ but the woman is apparently a ‘bitch’.

You can all think what you like, but be aware when you react this way you’re demonstrating your own ignorance and sexism. Disgaree with what someone says or does, but doing so in some of the comments above really makes one fear for humanity.

(21)(51)

Quiet call to arms

Standing up for herself? Perhaps. But she seems to espouse the same sort of repugnant ignorance which she here protests. She’s clearly ageist. She’s done herself no favours publicising this. None whatsoever. But will she receive the same treatment as our sexist friend? The hell she will. Because she’s the victim. she’s the downtrodden in this narrative. And he’s a middle-aged white man who holds all the power.

He was sexist. Yes. He is rightly called out on that and should be justly reprimanded. But where is the vitriol for her ageist stance? And tweeting the screenshot…how will she be penalised for this flagrant breach of professional ethics?

(27)(10)

Emmy

I think she was well within her right to state that she was offended by the remarks and that it was inappropriate a doctor place. That was 100 per cent a valid point.

Some may say that she has unfortunately undermined her own case by going about it in the wrong way – publishing the correspondence on twitter may not have been the best way of correcting the situation. HOWEVER: it is a sharp elbow in the ribs to any other male in the legal industry who thinks about conducting himself in such a way towards females who are simply trying to get on with their day job. It will make others think twice. I admit, publishing the correspondence on twitter was outlandish, brave bordering on a total lack of self regard. But – ultimately, she has done everyone a favour (males and females) by demonstrating that unwanted behaviour / harassment is not tolerated, and secondly that you can be publicly outed at any time.

(6)(23)

Not Amused

Calling this harassment is both wrong in law (harassment is a course of conduct) and deeply insulting to genuine victims of harassment.

As indeed it is sexist to pretend that this was sexist.

These wrongs are then compounded by her ageism.

It was a compliment, a flirtation. She felt it was inappropriate. Well that’s her choice. I disagree. As there is no case law or statute determining what is or is not appropriate in this circumstance her view and mine must remain equally valid. However she went further and set about trying to publicly hurt a fellow human being – she feels that is valid, again I find that she and I disagree.

What we are discussing is her feelings, her opinion, versus mine or the opinion of others. Entirely subjective and personal matters. Do not attempt to dignify that or aggrandise it by attaching it to objective concepts – that simply won’t work. Sexist, harassment, discrimination, objectification these all have objective definitions. The only term open to those who agree with her is “inappropriate” and that is because the word “inappropriate” is itself insufficiently defined either in law or in society in general. It itself is a subjective term and it adds no additional validity to any subjective opinion.

When two adults in our society have differing opinions that is perfectly fine. What can not be acceptable is the way any adult seeks to enforce their opinion on or over others. Just as we would condemn any political party who used violence (even if we agreed with the politics) we must look very closely at the actions human beings take to enforce their opinions. The internet is incredibly bad at this. It encourages the worst of human behaviour. We should be teaching our children how to behave when they encounter an opinion which disagrees with their own – because currently, what I see is a lot of unacceptable behaviour were people actively seek to cause hurt to others simply to prove they are right.

(30)(3)

Emmy

I agree. I stand corrected: This is not harassment by any stretch. My mistake there. I shouldn’t play fast and loose with legal concepts / basic factual concepts there.

However, his message is inappropriate and sexist. This is plainly stated. Why is he commenting on her physical appearance: “stunning picture” / “best linked in picture i have ever seen”.

This is not a case of subjective interpretation leading to the female taking offence. I think it is objectively, some silly and inappropriate remarks. You forget that he himself acknowledges this when he says this is “horrendously politically incorrect”.

She is not ageist. Stating that she is half is age is merely stating a fact. It also alludes to the fact that someone of his experience should probably know better.

His explanation in his response is just pure cringe, as if he was complimenting the professionalism of the picture / composition and lighting of the picture!! Tosh. Having said that, it’s probably the best chance he has of creatively producing an “innocent explanation”.

I agree with you, that Internet publication is probably not sensible. Better sorted out in private. But, she has made an important point about acceptable standards of behaviour, even if it is one that harms herself in the process. I also agree that the Internet is very harsh in exposing a moments madness – the solicitor bashing out a silly, inappropriate response which he probably did not give much thought to, and above all, his family. It must be hurtful for them, and that is not nice.

(6)(9)

Not Amused

I am impressed with your civility. Genuinely.

I think the problem you have is that ‘inappropriate behaviour’ is not itself a defined term. Now, do we want it to be? I’m a libertarian and therefore I am very uncomfortable with the idea. But societies have sought to regulate flirtation/courtship before. If you want to regulate courtship then are you willing to say that no user of linked in can send a private e-mail complimenting another user for their appearance?

See I’m a bit of a hypocrite myself because I loathe the barrister boyfriend site. The whole reason I created ‘Not Amused’ was because I was, like a certain historical figure, not amused by their objectification and trivialisation of both genders. I saw it as bullying and mean. But as a libertarian ought I?

These matters are very complicated. That is why I would personally avoid any declaratory statement about what this conduct “was”. It can’t be objectively ‘inappropriate’ because we don’t have an agreed definition of the word (and few commentators even go so far as to seek to apply their own professed view in a consistent way). It can’t be sexist because it is not discrimination or prejudice based on gender. As I have said I’m sure lots of men do message other men and hit on them – it’s pretty close to being homophobic to imagine that that isn’t going on. I imagine lots of women hit on other women and on men. Like my heroine, I just don’t expect to be told about it. She could claim it was discriminatory because he is heterosexual – but we don’t actually even know that. If he turns around and says, “I am bisexual, here is a message I sent to a man last week” then the whole “this was sexist” argument will instantly collapse. It is itself predicated upon a sexist idea that women are always weaker and inferior to men – I simply reject that. That’s why that argument isn’t real.

So all we are left with, after millions of words, is two conflicting opinions. Either can be right because society does not (yet) regulate this activity. In those circumstances I sort of regret showing a view on the initial activity – because what I really care about is the behaviour afterwards. I do not think the public shaming is acceptable, I think it is mean. I accept that we don’t regulate the activity of publicly shaming people either. So my view is again subjective. What I can say is that I think the actions taken to publicly shame him make me feel deeply saddened for my fellow human beings – man’s inhumanity to man.

Anonymous

I see where you are coming from.

This is quite the debacle, and seems to have taken on a life of its own!! Although, by tomorrow it will be forgotten, I’m sure.

I went back to re – read each word of their message exchange, and I really think that now, after considering it, both parties come off quite badly.

On a pure practical note, if I was in her shoes, I would have handled it differently.

(I) yes, she has every right to say she objects to his response and the reasons for it. To that end, the first 2 lines of her message was sufficient. It should have stopped there. — the golden rule of advocacy is to make your point and then stop. Carrying on after, tests the limits a bit.
(II) The theoretical discussion about the eroticisation of women, while generally true, was misplaced here and out of proportion.
(III) To reply to him privately would have been proportionate.
(IV) To publish on twitter was disproportionate, people may question whether this was necessary or a mature approach.

Above all, this calls into question the judgment of both lawyers. Isn’t that the most damaging thing of all for a lawyer? – to have your professional judgement called into question, so publicly? (Him: for communicating such stupid remarks in the first place. People now have a negative view on how he regards women, which may or may not be true. Her: for the disproportionate elements of her response, and the way it was handled).

Both have poor judgment, and that is pretty damning. Purely from a practical viewpoint, I would not instruct either if i was a client and had done a basic google search.

Poor judgement as a lawyer is fatal. They are both guilty of that. This has become an issue now, affecting both quite badly on a personal and professional level, I’m sure. It did not have to go this far. Their job is the law (and managing relationships / boundaries in a responsible manner), not drama.

But that’s my practical reading of this.

Anonymous

It isn’t sexist in a million years.

Anon

A sharp nudge in the ribs?

No I don’t think so.

Every militant feminist action is just one more man who won’t bother marrying.

(0)(1)

Anonymous

Her response pompous but reasonable. Maybe ok to complain to his managing partner, at a push to the SRA but to go public with total disregard for the pain caused to his wife and family shocking and insensitive.

(3)(1)

Anonymous

Yawn……. poor defenceless girlie attacked by half naked man? Eeerrrr no. He liked her photo – he is a clumsy, tacky dickhead. Her response however is over the top and typical of the politically correct, tree hugging, leftie thin skinned (I’m offended) brigade.

(0)(0)

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