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Dundee ranks HIGHER than LSE, UCL and Durham in law degree league table

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66

Cambridge bagged top spot — again

Dundee Law School

The University of Dundee has ranked higher than Russell Group heavyweights coming in third and beating the London School of Economics (LSE), which came in fourth, University College London (sixth) and Durham University (eighth) in this year’s law faculty power list.

Unsurprisingly, there’s little change to the very top end of the list. The University of Cambridge came first, making it the best law faculty in the United Kingdom for the fifth consecutive year, closely followed by the University of Oxford at number two. Dundee’s ascent to bronze place sent Queen Mary — which ranked third in the 2018 list — tumbling down the ranks to a humble 17th.

Compiled by The Guardian, the annual list assesses UK law degrees on a number of key criteria, some from students themselves (using the National Student Survey) including student satisfaction, the quality of teaching and student-to-staff ratios as well as specific metrics such as law graduates’ careers prospects. Law schools are then given a score out of 100 and ranked accordingly.

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And there’s definitely something going on in Scotland right now: alongside Dundee climbing three places, Abertay University, also based in Dundee, made a shock first appearance at number seven on the list. The University of Glasgow rocketed eighteen places up the league to come in at ninth.

Northern major players, the University of York, came in fifth, and Leeds dropped a few points but still secured tenth place, rounding off this year’s top ten.

Further down the law school pecking order, the University of East Anglia slipped out of the top ten and finished 18th this year while London South Bank University — last year’s big riser — dropped twelve places down to 25th.

The newspaper has added a new index this year which is the continuation score, measuring how many first-year students carry on into their second year. Other university league tables include those compiled by The Complete University Guide and one by The Times.

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Top 20 Law Faculties 2019:

Ranking Law school Overall Guardian score (out of 100)
1 Cambridge 100
2 Oxford 89.5
3 Dundee 88.9
4 London School of Economics 83.5
5 York 83.1
6 UCL 82.7
7 Abertay Dundee 82.4
8 Durham 79.7
9 Glasgow 78.9
10 Leeds 78.5
11 Bristol 76.3
12 King’s College London 76
13 Kent 75.3
14 Southampton Solent 75.1
15 Aberdeen 74.6
16 Nottingham 74.1
17 Queen Mary 72.4
18 UEA 72.3
19 Cumbria 71.4
20 Buckingham 71.3

The full rankings can be found here.

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66 Comments

Legna & Lived

The Dark Horse. It is time to get rid of the automatic privilege associated with Cambridge and Oxford.

(19)(11)

Anonymous

‘automatic privilege’ – either you’re a troll or just simply deluded.

(11)(10)

Anonymous

Oxford and Cambridge are just the best grads.

Fact.

(15)(18)

Anonymous

Untrue. They are often the subjects of “daddy’s money” and “public school pretentiousness”, save for of course, those down to earth (potentially) scholarship earning grads who actually work to get there.

(43)(16)

Anonymous

I say this is untrue, but not the same reason as stated by the other comment claiming daddy’s money and public school pretentiousness.

Oxford and Cambridge take on the best school leavers. That is a fact. Now how they became the best is often due to positions of privilege and occasional hard work, or just extreme hard work. None the less, the entry requirements are pretty insane and the numbers of available spots, especially in law, make for serious competition. Congratulations on being the most keen teenager.

BUT, people change during university, and sometimes not for the better! Lots of people burn out of Oxford and Cambridge, or graduate as unlovable wankers that will find it impossible to find people willing to work with them. And yes, some of them will be the next leaders of the country or Nobel prize winners etc. However, that is also happening at many of the younger universities.

My argument is talent (or lack thereof?) can develop in a number of situations, environments, and time lines. Maybe someone going to Oxford peaked in life around the time of the entrance exams, and are a real dud that can’t survive on their own in the real world. I’ve worked with a few of those. Maybe the person who fought tooth and nail just to get a 2:2 LLB from a terrible former poly really hits their stride in their late 20s or even later and eventually makes in to a Chambers ranking guide. I’ve also worked with one or two of those, and they’re bloody impressive. Shortsighted statements like yours can undermine a vast pool of existing and future talent which is bad for the profession, the clients, and the general economy. Be better.

(6)(0)

Corbyn. Symphathiser

Out of interest, is there any particular reason the daily round-ups have vanished?

(4)(2)

Anonymous

I also wondered – any light, LC?

(1)(0)

Anonymous

That is a good question, and one that not even LC’s infamous tame Marxist could work a far-left angle into.

I miss the morning round-ups.

(0)(0)

Corbyn. Sympathiser

No angle, friend, just curiosity!

(0)(0)

Anonymous

London unis are shit

(11)(4)

Anonymous

True.

Full of wealthy Eurotrash and British povvos.

Rubbish lecturers who can’t even speak English.

Why would you want to teach there as a British academic? You’d earn more on benefits.

(10)(11)

Oxford law grad

Don’t be so sneery LC. Dundee has always had a strong reputation for law and an international reputation for labour and land/environmental law.

(15)(4)

Anonymous

Won’t get you a job though

(4)(5)

Anonymous

Will do in Scotland… an English law degree won’t as easily.

(8)(2)

Anonymous

Dundee also offers a dual LLB in English & Scottish Law, which means that when you are finished you can choose which jurisdiction to move forward in, or qualify into one and then have an easy time dual qualifying later. I think there is only one other place in the UK that offers it.

(3)(0)

Anonymous

Ah the Guardian league tables where metrics such as “satisfied with feedback” outweigh “career after 6 months”.

Across all courses, Imperial College ranks second for “average entry tariff” and first for “career after 6 months”. Overall Guardian score = 7th. Tells you all you need to know really.

(32)(3)

Anonymous

But in the glorious Socialist Republic of Corbynistan, yearned for by the Guardian, where every worker will be guaranteed a job, “career after 6 months” will become a meaningless metric…

(26)(1)

Corbyn. Sympathiser

I’m sorry that the idea of full employment is apparently, to you, something out of a Middle Eastern dystopia.

(16)(7)

Anonymous

If you think the Guardian supports Corbyn you’ve clearly never read it.

(0)(1)

Anonymous

While it might make sense to put English and Scottish unis in the same list for most subjects, I’ve never been convinced that it makes any sense for law. A Scottish LLB is not a qualifying law degree in England and vice versa, so it would make little sense for English students wishing to work in law in England to go up to Scotland to study (unless they want to study law for three years and still have to do a GDL). As someone from England who wanted to work in England I never considered studying law at Scottish unis, so why clutter up the lists with unis that people simply wouldn’t go to?

(10)(5)

Anonymous

Dundee offers Scots Law, English Law and Dual Qualifying Scots and English Law LLBs.

(19)(1)

TheAcresOfFour

Except Dundee provides a dual qualifying Scots/English LLB, and an English Law LLB:-

https://www.dundee.ac.uk/study/ug/law/

(7)(0)

Anonymous

Dundee does but none of the other Scottish unis on the list offer English LLBs, one offers a Common Law LLB that takes four years but that’s it. I would be fine if they included the Dundee English Law LLB on the list, but the others still don’t make sense.

(4)(2)

Anonymous

Actually, Glasgow is starting a common law/English law LLB in the very near future!

(6)(2)

Anonymous

Strathclyde does, actually

(3)(0)

Anonymous

And as for the others, Scots Law LLB students won’t have to do a full GDL. I studied Scots Law at Glasgow and only had to do two modules on the GDL.

(1)(0)

Anonymous

You have to do the GDL. Few modules or no, BPP and UoL are slow, tedious and bureaucratic; there are fixed start and end dates for the 9 month programme for it and the LPC, including for taking lectures, revision periods and exams which they also have at fixed times. I don’t know if you had to be around for a full 9 months, but it will slow your start date by at least 6 months and probably a year like everyone else.

Also, when I was at university none of the Scottish unis offered English law at all and they were still reasonably well ranked “cluttering up” the league tables. If some are recently introducing English law courses that is great, but the universities are ranked in the league tables based on their entire legal department including the Scots law offering for metrics which include research and student satisfaction, entry requirements which have no bearing on the English law courses. And for English law courses you need English legal, not Scottish academics, so building a new department from scratch might take some time before becoming as good as other institutions, despite the ranking.

(1)(0)

Anonymous

Yes, but what else have the Romans done for us?

(3)(0)

Anonymous

Strathclyde is an ex poly…

(0)(0)

Libeturd Leftie

Other than that one fact, do you know anything else about the academic rigours of Strathclyde?

Or does the moniker “ex poly” suffice for your purposes?

(0)(0)

Anonymous

Aberdeen offers a joint Scots/England law degree

(1)(0)

Anonymous

Aberdeen Uni does.

(1)(0)

TheAcresOfFour

The clue is that it’s a Grauniad league table. Which mean like the paper, its optimal use is wiping your arse with it.

(23)(4)

Anonymous

means*

(2)(1)

Anonymous

Bristol behind Abertay / Dundee / Leeds and even York shows why league tables are BS at least in terms of employer targetting.

(10)(6)

Anonymous

Are you a triggered Bristol grad by any chance?

(15)(3)

Ciaran Goggins

The hallowed halls of Wills, the languid meadows of Hiatt Baker.

(1)(0)

Anonymous

You sound salty af. Better luck next time kid

(2)(0)

Dude

If in doubt, get the League tables out. Then the comments section will be filled with arrogance, snobbery, chippiness and despair. How I love legalcheek on a Friday morning!!

(8)(0)

Anonymous

Once again Leeds are Top 10 and yet people downplay the quality of the teaching and students there

(4)(3)

Anonymous

After you qualify nobody cares which uni you attended. It’s about how good your are as a lawyer running cases.

(10)(5)

Anonymous

Oxbridge will always make up a disproportionate number of MC/US Biglaw lawyers, at every level.

(6)(0)

Anonymous

Dundee is in the Top 10 in all three university league tables – The Grauniad, The Times and the Complete University Guide. It is also top 10 in the National Student Survey. And for those complaining it’s in Scotland, it is the only Scottish uni to offer a dual qualifying LLB English/Scots Law as well as an LLB English Law. It also has a UNESCO centre for law. It’s a tiny city in a nowheresville but it has an amazing legal pedigree going back to the 1400s (aye, alright, I’m a Dundee grad)

(13)(2)

FC

it’s a newspaper ranking based on many questionable factors – as about as authoritative as Denning in a QB dissent

(6)(3)

Ciaran Goggins

Dundee is a livable city, more than can be said for London.

(5)(2)

Anonymous

“I got offers from LSE, UCL and Durham but I think i’ll turn all of them down for Dundee” said no-one ever

(28)(4)

Anonymous

People who don’t want to spend a fortune to live in London or go to university with depressed oxbridge rejects might say it

(6)(12)

hmmmm

Better to go to a uni with depressed Oxbridge rejects than to a depressing uni with people who weren’t good enough to apply to Oxbridge in the first place.

(9)(4)

Anonymous

Lol dry your eyes, sorry your prehistoric universities are no longer rated as highly as they were when daddy was there.

(6)(4)

Anonymous

LSE and UCL are prehistoric?

The funny thing is that QMUL people tried to be superior with regard to their ranking in the Guardian last year, only to shut up all of a sudden when they realised that their university dropped from 3rd to 17th in a single year.

I predict that Dundee’s supporters will suffer a similar fate in Guardian 2020.

Meanwhile, the actually worthwhile institutions will stay right at the top 😉

(0)(2)

USUSUSUSUSUSUS

where my warwick at

that’s right, students rating their uni shit so it tumbles in student satisfaction and the table

(1)(0)

Not Guiltay

Soten Solent – 14… really?

(1)(1)

Anonymous

Soton*

(1)(0)

Anonymous

Why is it that league tables rank the same institutions differently yet apply very similar criteria. These tables are so much guff to fill space in newspapers.

(0)(0)

Anonymous

In other news, QMUL fell from 3rd last year to 17th this year.

Seriously.

(1)(0)

Anonymous

Buckingham at 20. Well deserved

(2)(0)

Anonymous

Cue Oxbridge entitled whinging….

(3)(0)

UWE

UWE

(1)(1)

Anonymous

(((the guardian)))

(2)(1)

Anonymous

It’s all about Doxbridge – Dundee, Oxford and Cambridge

(10)(0)

Anonymous

Who knew that Dundee and Glasgow were at Oxbridge level.

Oh wait, that’s what CUG and the Guardian are trying to convince us of.

(3)(1)

Anonymous

All this does is discredit the Guardian’s league table

(1)(3)

Anonymous

Dundee is an amazing place, and university. The law faculty in particular has extremely high standards of teaching, and its recent praise is really well deserved. I feel that a lot of people discredit Dundee based on snobbiness alone, probably having never visited the city or the university. As a final note, the school of thought that says people would much rather go to UCL, Durham etc. than Dundee is simply not true. If you’re Scottish, you get your education for free, and purely on league tables alone, why not stay up north. Lots of good universities up here, and at the moment, it seems Dundee is pick of the bunch.

(6)(2)

Diane Abbott

Everything you say may be true but it still doesn’t make it top 3 in the country and its a gross misrepresentation

(0)(0)

Anonymous

Whichever University you attend it really won’t make any difference when you’re actually doing the job, making a summary speech or preparing a bundle.

This obsession with league tables is moronic. As is anyone who thinks that getting into one particular institution is the only important criterion for a career at the bar.

(1)(2)

Diane Abbott QC

The day dundee is top 3 in this country behind oxbridge is the day I know what we’re paying policemen under labour.

Just shows how worthless these rankings are.

(0)(1)

Comments are closed.

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